Pre-treat weeds with soapy water before spraying weed killer?

[HomeGuy]

I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.

I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.

I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.

Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?

And just for clarity, Ortho Weed B Gon contains:

2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

[Tony Hwang]

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

Hi,
In this city chemical week killer wass banned few years ago.
We use DW liquid+salt+vinegar to kill weeds and use arm
strong power to physically remove weeds in our small city lot.

[Pico Rico]

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

Hi,
In this city chemical week killer wass banned few years ago.
We use DW liquid+salt+vinegar to kill weeds and use arm
strong power to physically remove weeds in our small city lot.

Bu . . bu . . but:

DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

[Tony Hwang]

Post by Pico Rico

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

Hi,
In this city chemical week killer wass banned few years ago.
We use DW liquid+salt+vinegar to kill weeds and use arm
strong power to physically remove weeds in our small city lot.

DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

Hi,
You're right but it won't make our dog or neighborhood small
children sick or who knows even die.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by Pico Rico
DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

Hi,
You're right but it won't make our dog or neighborhood small
children sick or who knows even die.

I wouldn't be sure.... depends how long the exposure.
Sodium causes heart problems, and vinegar can upset
the pH balance.

[Pico Rico]

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by Pico Rico
DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

Hi,
You're right but it won't make our dog or neighborhood small
children sick or who knows even die.

I wouldn't be sure.... depends how long the exposure.
Sodium causes heart problems, and vinegar can upset
the pH balance.

sodium doesn't go away either. It just stays in your soil forever. Not for
me.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Pico Rico

Post by Stormin Mormon
I wouldn't be sure.... depends how long the exposure.
Sodium causes heart problems, and vinegar can upset
the pH balance.

sodium doesn't go away either. It just stays
in your soil forever. Not for
me.

So, why is there not a foot of rock salt along
the side of the road?

[Pico Rico]

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by Pico Rico

Post by Stormin Mormon
I wouldn't be sure.... depends how long the exposure.
Sodium causes heart problems, and vinegar can upset
the pH balance.

sodium doesn't go away either. It just stays
in your soil forever. Not for
me.

So, why is there not a foot of rock salt along
the side of the road?

That probably runs down the gutter to the lake. But when the Romans were
putting an end to their enemies' foolishness, they salted their fields. If
they can't grow, they can't eat, and if they can't eat, they can't be a
nuisance to the Romans.

[Pete C.]

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by Pico Rico

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

Hi,
In this city chemical week killer wass banned few years ago.
We use DW liquid+salt+vinegar to kill weeds and use arm
strong power to physically remove weeds in our small city lot.

DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

Hi,
You're right but it won't make our dog or neighborhood small
children sick or who knows even die.

Eliminating dogs would be a big benefit actually...

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Pico Rico

Post by Tony Hwang
Hi,
In this city chemical week killer wass banned few years ago.
We use DW liquid+salt+vinegar to kill weeds and use arm
strong power to physically remove weeds in our small city lot.

DW liquid+salt+vinegar is a chemical weed killer

For sure, it's acidic and saline, not to mention
destroys surface tension. What a chemical mix.

[Bob F]

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with
water according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting"
the leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most
of it beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy
water, or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and
water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of
water-soluble weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing
agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

You could try adding a bit of liquid soap to the spray as you mix it and see if
it works better.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Bob F

Post by HomeGuy
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of
water-soluble weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing
agent is used?

You could try adding a bit of liquid soap to the spray as you mix it and see if
it works better.

Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

[J Burns]

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by Bob F

Post by HomeGuy
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of
water-soluble weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing
agent is used?

You could try adding a bit of liquid soap to the spray as you mix it and see if
it works better.

Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

I looked into Roundup a few months ago so I could tell a neighbor the
shelf life. Monsanto says 6 months after mixing, and it's the
surfacant, not the glyphosate, that breaks down. She bought another
brand. The label mentions only glyphosate, but the way it foams leads
me to believe it, too, contains surfacant.

A drawback to spraying is that it doesn't take long for new weeds to
sprout. If you use a trimmer or pull, you can leave the kind of grasses
or other plants that will discourage weeds.

[J Burns]

Post by J Burns

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by Bob F

Post by HomeGuy
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of
water-soluble weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing
agent is used?

You could try adding a bit of liquid soap to the spray as you mix it and see if
it works better.

Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

I looked into Roundup a few months ago so I could tell a neighbor the
shelf life. Monsanto says 6 months after mixing, and it's the
surfacant, not the glyphosate, that breaks down. She bought another
brand. The label mentions only glyphosate, but the way it foams leads
me to believe it, too, contains surfacant.
A drawback to spraying is that it doesn't take long for new weeds to
sprout. If you use a trimmer or pull, you can leave the kind of grasses
or other plants that will discourage weeds.

I meant "surfactant." Until now, I've always spelled it wrong!

[HomeGuy]

Post by Stormin Mormon
Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

Why do you have your line-length set to 50-odd characters instead of,
say, 72?

Regarding roundup, the only place I use that is in my parkinglot at
$dayjob and on the road in front of my house (in the cracks around the
curbs) or on my driveway. There is no other place where spraying
roundup in my yard wouldn't kill either grass or something that my SO
would kill me for.

Post by Stormin Mormon
I looked into Roundup a few months ago so I could tell a neighbor
the shelf life. Monsanto says 6 months after mixing, and it's the
surfacant, not the glyphosate, that breaks down.

I buy Roundup in premixed 5-liter hand-pump sprayer:

Loading Image...

When it's all used up, I clean it with hot water, use some lacquer
thinner to wipe away the painted-on label, and use it as a sprayer for
Ortho weed-b-gon.

The Roundup I buy in that 5-liter ready-to-use sprayer contains:

- glyphosate (present as isopropylamine salt)

preservatives
- 5-chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one
- 2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one

Nothing else is listed. No other chemicals, no surfactants.

Could those "preservatives" function as surfactants?

According to this:

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html

==================
Glyphosate is practically non-toxic to fish. However, Roundup was more
toxic to fish than was glyphosate. An additive used in the Roundup
formulation (modified tallow amine used as a surfactant) is apparently
more toxic to fish than many common surfactants. For this reason, the
formulation for use in aquatic situations (Rodeo) omits this
ingredient. The surfactant is used to allow the compound to readily
dissolve in solution and to keep the compound from balling up on the
leaf surface.
===================

This is wikipedia's page for polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethoxylated_tallow_amine

===============
Roundup Pro is a formulation of glyphosate that contains a phosphate
ester neutralized polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactant; as of 1997
there was no published information regarding the chemical differences
between the surfactant in Roundup and Roundup Pro.

The polyethoxylated tallow amine used as a surfactant in Roundup is
referred to in the literature as MON 0139 or polyoxyethyleneamine
(POEA). Presumably, the Roundup surfactant is a derivative of tallow, a
complex mixture of fat from the fatty tissue of cattle or sheep.

POEA is 15% of Roundup formulations and the phosphate ester neutralized
polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactant is 14.5% of Roundup Pro.

Surfactants are generally required to be used with glyphosate to allow
effective uptake of glyphosate, which is hydrophilic, across plant
cuticles, which are hydrophobic, and reduces the amount of glyphosate
washed off plants by rain.
===============

Does premixed Roundup available in the US contain surfactants?

I spray insecticidal soap on a few locust trees to kill aphids, and
might start mixing it with Roundup and Weed-B-Gon as an experiment.
This soap contains:

- Alkanolamine salts of fatty acids (25%)

[Bob F]

I use the concentrate. It is hugely less expensive purchased that way.
The pump sprayer is easily refillable.

[HomeGuy]

Post by Bob F
I use the concentrate. It is hugely less expensive purchased that way.

I don't use enough roundup to make it a real concern. I don't have a
lot of area (on a sq. footage basis) to nuke of all plant life. Due to
political retardation, concentrated roundup is not available at the
retail level where I am.

Post by Bob F
The pump sprayer is easily refillable.

You can buy concentrated roundup that comes in a pump sprayer?

[Bob F]

Post by HomeGuy

Post by Bob F
I use the concentrate. It is hugely less expensive purchased that way.

I don't use enough roundup to make it a real concern. I don't have a
lot of area (on a sq. footage basis) to nuke of all plant life. Due
to political retardation, concentrated roundup is not available at the
retail level where I am.

Post by Bob F
The pump sprayer is easily refillable.

You can buy concentrated roundup that comes in a pump sprayer?

Come-on. You can't really be that dumb.

[ChairMan]

Post by HomeGuy

Post by Stormin Mormon
Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

Why do you have your line-length set to 50-odd characters instead of,
say, 72?

why do you continuely morph?
is it because your an asshole or you do you have an identity problem

[Bob F]

Post by HomeGuy

Post by Stormin Mormon
Have to try plain Roundup on one side of the yard,
then add some soap and do the other side of the yard.
Do an A versus B test. I'd like to hear how the test
works out. I do use Roundup on my weeds.

Why do you have your line-length set to 50-odd characters instead of,
say, 72?

Maybe because then it can go through a few cycles of not being trimed by people
following up before it starts making everyones newsreaders add blank
lines.

[HomeGuy]

Post by Bob F

Post by HomeGuy
Why do you have your line-length set to 50-odd characters instead
of, say, 72?

Maybe because then it can go through a few cycles of not being trimed
by people following up before it starts making everyones newsreaders
add blank lines.

I reformat ALL of the text that I quote so that it remains properly
formatted.

AND - for those dumb-ass full-quoters, you shouldn't be dragging the
same text through multiple chain-replies anyways. These are not email
conversations were having. This is usenet, where the entire thread is
ALWAYS AVAILABLE and there is NO NEED TO DRAG OLD TEXT INTO SEVERAL
GENERATIONS OF REPLIES.

[dpb]

On 07/13/2014 9:52 PM, HomeGuy wrote:
...

Post by HomeGuy
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?

...

Indeed they do...

<http://extension.psu.edu/pests/weeds/control/adjuvants-for-enhancing-herbicide-performance>

--

[philo]

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.

A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.
A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

How big is your yard? How well do your neighbors keep theirs so seeds
don't fly to your yard? Sometimes you need more than just pulling the
weeds, though there are better methods than just chemicals.

[philo]

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.
A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

How big is your yard? How well do your neighbors keep theirs so seeds
don't fly to your yard? Sometimes you need more than just pulling the
weeds, though there are better methods than just chemicals.

Admittedly my yard is fairly small, I suppose for a large area I'd think
differently.

[dadiOH]

Post by philo 

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of
water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.

Good luck doing that along a half mile of fence.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by dadiOH

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.

Good luck doing that along a half mile of fence.

My landlord is concerned about trim weeds,
mow the lawn. A couple year ago, I sprayed
Roundup all around my trailer, right near
the skirting. Left a dead zone. Which is OK
with me, at least it's not weeds and doesn't
cost me money when the landlord decides to
send his guy out to trim my weeds. Far as I
know, no children or animals were killed.
Except the little boy who... no, probably not
the cause.....

[Ralph Mowery]

Post by Stormin Mormon
My landlord is concerned about trim weeds,
mow the lawn. A couple year ago, I sprayed
Roundup all around my trailer, right near
the skirting. Left a dead zone. Which is OK
with me, at least it's not weeds and doesn't
cost me money when the landlord decides to
send his guy out to trim my weeds. Far as I
know, no children or animals were killed.
Except the little boy who... no, probably not
the cause.....

Good thing about Roundup and other products that only contain glyphostate
and no other harmful chemicals is that it is almost harmless to people and
animals with normal usage. You could probably drink small quanties and
have almost no effect. Maybe like a good dose of Exlax. You would think
somthing that would kill almost all plant life would be very dangerous to
people, but turns out it is one of the safest chemical grass and weed
killers.

[Jon Danniken]

On 07/14/2014 02:15 AM, philo wrote:>

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.
A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

Yep. A number of years ago I used some of the Weed-B-Gon on my yard to
get rid of a dandelion infestation. While it worked well, I noticed
that the local squirrels were acting a bit strange for a few weeks
afterwards. In the following years, I noticed a similar behavior
pattern near other neighbors who used the products.

Now I just go out and pull the weeds every once in awhile. You can pick
a lot of weeds in a half an hour (literally hundreds of them), and it's
more satisfying to get the chance to kill them up close and personal
anyway. Like any "dirty job", I just put on some working clothes and
gloves and have at it.

Jon

[Pico Rico]

Post by Jon Danniken
On 07/14/2014 02:15 AM, philo wrote:>

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.
A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

Yep. A number of years ago I used some of the Weed-B-Gon on my yard to
get rid of a dandelion infestation. While it worked well, I noticed
that the local squirrels were acting a bit strange for a few weeks
afterwards. In the following years, I noticed a similar behavior
pattern near other neighbors who used the products.

the squirrels were acting squirrelly? How so?

[Dan Espen]

Post by Jon Danniken
On 07/14/2014 02:15 AM, philo wrote:>

Post by philo 
No way would I ever toxify my yard, I found that after a good rain it's
pretty easy to pull out the weeds roots and all.
A number of years ago garlic mustard took over and after a good rain,
those things came out with little effort and now that I've cleared the
yard , no more than three or four return each year.

Yep. A number of years ago I used some of the Weed-B-Gon on my yard to
get rid of a dandelion infestation. While it worked well, I noticed
that the local squirrels were acting a bit strange for a few weeks
afterwards. In the following years, I noticed a similar behavior
pattern near other neighbors who used the products.

Squirrels acting strange?

Is there a punch line or was that it?

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Dan Espen

Post by Jon Danniken
Yep. A number of years ago I used some of the Weed-B-Gon on my yard to
get rid of a dandelion infestation. While it worked well, I noticed
that the local squirrels were acting a bit strange for a few weeks
afterwards. In the following years, I noticed a similar behavior
pattern near other neighbors who used the products.

Squirrels acting strange?
Is there a punch line or was that it?

Aw, nuts. You asked before me.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Jon Danniken
Yep. A number of years ago I used some of the Weed-B-Gon on my yard to
get rid of a dandelion infestation. While it worked well, I noticed
that the local squirrels were acting a bit strange for a few weeks
afterwards. In the following years, I noticed a similar behavior
pattern near other neighbors who used the products.
Jon

How does a squirrel act strange?

Did you spray your neighbor?

[dadiOH]

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.

Don't pre-spray, just add a small amount of surfacant to the weed killer.
I can't tell you how much bu tI add about a cap full or two of liquid dish
detergent to my 35 gallon spray tank with either 2,4-D or Rodeo/Roundup.

[Frank]

Post by HomeGuy
I mix concentrated Ortho Weed B Gon (Plus Grabgrass Control) with water
according to the label and use a 1-gallon handpump sprayer.
I suppose that it works, but I don't exactly see the spray "wetting" the
leaves and stems of the stuff I'm spraying. Looks more like most of it
beads up on the leaves and runs off.
I'm thinking that this stuff would be more effective if it "stuck" to
the leaves, and I think that's only going to happen if the surface
tension is reduced, possibly by pre-spraying the weeds with soapy water,
or alternatively maybe adding soap in with the weed killer and water.
Does anyone have a clue regarding if the effectiveness of water-soluble
weed killer is increased if a surface-tension reducing agent is used?
2,4-D (Dimethylamine salt)
Quinclorac
Dicamba (dimethlamine salt)

I would assume the mix is formulated for maximum effectiveness and works
best when directions are followed.

I had a neighbor that had one of these jobs at DuPont and that is all he
did.

[HomeGuy]

Terry Coombs used improper usenet message composition style by

FWIW and for anyone who cares , QUIT KILLING THE BEES !
Just about every one of those compounds for killing weeds has an
effect on our pollinators.

I think you're confusing herbicides and insecticides.

Herbicides have no designed or documented effects directly on insects as
far as I know, apart from reducing potential pollen sources from
flowering weeds.

[Terry Coombs]

Post by HomeGuy
Terry Coombs used improper usenet message composition style by

FWIW and for anyone who cares , QUIT KILLING THE BEES !
Just about every one of those compounds for killing weeds has an
effect on our pollinators.

I think you're confusing herbicides and insecticides.
Herbicides have no designed or documented effects

* <<<<directly>>>> *

Post by HomeGuy
on insects
as far as I know, apart from reducing potential pollen sources from
flowering weeds.

Then you'd best update your info , because glyphosate has been implicated
in CCD . You can bet your sweet ass I won't be using anything that hasn't
been PROVEN safe for bees , there's a pretty big investment sittin' out
there in the orchard .

[CarlAlan]

I add liquid soap (dish soap) to the weed killer